Renault 551 - Need help setting the diesel injection pump timing - instrctions

HI Guys, My last question was about engine issues I was having. Engine now rebuilt, moved to injector pump and injectors. New injectors and rebuilt pump. Now having trouble setting the pump timing. Does any one have any instructions on what to do? Does the injection pump have a TOP DEAD CENTRE? Do I set cylinder 1 to TOP DEAD CENTRE? Any help or instructions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Nick N

Reacties

Wimsumar
Hello Nick N, how are you doing this Friday 16th of November? 😉

First, did you notice the timing marks on distribution gear wheels? Put them in line. Then, turn axle of pump so the key will fit in it's proper place of gear wheel. At last, mount injection pmp between the scratches in the paint on the engine block.

I found some documentation. However it is MASSEY-FERGUSON/PERKINS, it is a same 3-cilinder engine and also CAV/ROTODIESEL injection pump.

annatefka.com/perkins/folders/…

(Click [NEXT] or [PREV.] on top corners of your screen to see next or previous page).
Happy future!
Nick N
Hi Wimsumar,

Thank you so much for your help. Unfortunately we don't have any scratched marks on the engine block, so it'll be a guess to start with. I'm really looking for the manufacturer specification for the MWM D226.3 timing instruction to suite the Roto diesel cav pump. Im paying a mechanic to do the job so I really need to get it right so It doesnt cost me a lung 😉 Thanks again, Nick.
Nick N
This is what the inspection window looks like. It doesnt have a start and finish line. It has a raised ring that sits above the E when you turn the pump. Does this indicate the correct position for setting the timing? And where does the engine need to be, cylinder 1 TDC? Thanks guys.

(klik om te vergroten)

Wimsumar
Hello Nick:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
Does this indicate the correct position for setting the timing?

No, you can close the inspection window. This part of pump contains the high pressure pump unit that gives the right amount and pressure of the diesel liquid to the injectors.

For your Australian outback repair:
Best indication of correct timing position is to find the old place of the mounting flange (and the 3 bolts/nuts) to the engine block. (Marked by the old paint scratches).

I found some other documents. Unfortunately they are in French and Dutch language.

annatefka.com/perkins/cav-pomp.pdf/

vieux.tracteurs.free.fr/pdf/…
Nick N
Thanks for the documents, might have to brush up on my French. I know that the inspection window needs to be closed, I was just wondering if I need to align the letter E that’s seen in the photo, to set the timing as a starting point? And what position does the engine need to be? Thanks guys!
Wimsumar
Hello Nick N.:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
And what position does the engine need to be?

It's difficult to get it wrong(!) :

classicmachinery.net/forum/viewtopic.php/…

When the rebuilt pump is your 'good old one' you only have to watch the unique marks on timing gear housing and the pump flange.

Page 5:

f01.justanswer.com/HeavyEquipmentTech/…

B.T.W.:
Ask the service centre that did rebuilt your fuel pump what to do.
Nick N
Thanks Wimsumer. Unfortunately there are no timing marks on the flange. The mechanics concern is that the pump has 3 possible installation combinations. So it can go wrong. And the diesel injection shop is saying the same thing, that’s why they are all suggesting some manufacturers timing instruction for the mwm d226.3 and roto diesel cav injection pump. Thanks again for your help.
Wimsumar
Hello Nick N.:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
The mechanics concern is that the pump has 3 possible installation combinations.

Does he think so because of the three slite holes in the mounting flange?
That's impossible, as you can read on the TIMING CAV. DPA PUMPS-site, there is only one position in which the axle fits.
"These pumps are driven by a quill shaft with a master spline so its difficult to get it wrong''.

Besides that, you know yourself what's top of pump.
Nick N
Thanks Wimsumer. So the letter E in the window is top dead centre?

I think he’s concerned because the pump has 3 holes that mount to the gear in the case. This is where I think it can go 3 ways.

(klik om te vergroten)

Wimsumar
Hello Nick N.:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
pump has 3 holes that mount to the gear in the case.

Good picture. Thanks.

I think the hole with the splines give only one good way to mount the pump to the gear.

Do you have a picture of the gear in the case?
Nick N
I’m sorry I don’t have a photo of the gear but I think it has a flat face, so it can mount incorrectly.
Wimsumar
Goodmorning Nick N.:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
so it can mount incorrectly.

Yes, that's true. But you're a lucky man: If mounted incorrectly, engine won't start, and, no mechanical damage will happen. You only have to try once (or twice) more.
Nick N
Hi Winsumer. Exactly, it just won’t start! Need it to start man. I think I’ll just get the mechanic to have a few goes and just get the old girl going!! Thanks again for your help!!
Wimsumar
Hello Nick N.:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
get the old girl going!!

Bleeding the (RENAULT) fuel system is an awful business. Do not tighten the high pressure lines to the injectors, so the air can vent out easily.

Google-Surfing the W.W.W. (keywords: "Calage pompe d'injection Renault 551" meaning: Timing fuel pump Renault 551) gave no hit(s). On a French forum, A.T.R. (Amicale Tracteur Renault) you can order technical documents for reasonable money. So, if old man Santa drops by.........

atr-agri.superforum.fr/search/…
Nick N
Thanks again Wimsumar! I'll definitely look into those manuals.
Wimsumar
Hello Nick N.:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
look into those manuals.

In Germany I found a free download users manual of RENAULT 551. Look at them too:

"Data-anhänge":

landtreff.de/betriebsanleitung-renault-551-551-4-t…
Nick N
Hi Wimsumar. I’ve made contact with the ATR web site and provided my tractors engine number for reference. Unfortunately all manuals they have are French. I haven’t heard back yet. I’ve also asked the question on their forum, no replies just yet.

That German manual, I’ve had a copy of already. Does give specific settings for the injection pump timing and what page is it on. Try to narrow down the translation.

Thanks again, I appreciate your time and help very much!
Wimsumar
Hello Nick N.:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
specific settings for the injection pump timing and what page is it on.

Unfortunately there is NO information about the settings of injection pump in the user manual.
+1
Nick N
No worries, thank you for confirming.
Wimsumar
Hello Nick N.:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
worries

I've got some... I can't find your question on A.T.R.-forum.

atr-agri.superforum.fr/u6914/
Nick N
I wasnt really sure I posted correctly, google translate doesnt always work 😞
atr-agri.superforum.fr/privmsg/…
Nick N
Hi Wimsumar, I found this online from a German site.
Do you think it will contain the information I need?

motorbooks.at/catalog/product/…
Nick N
Wimsumar,

Christmas came early this year.

vieilles.soupapes.free.fr/?page=moteur&marque=MWM
Wimsumar
Hello Nick N.:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
Christmas came early

Yeah, I know this Vieilles.soupapes-site but Santa only knows something about a Deere. (Not being a John Deere. 😉 )
These M.W.M. books tell nothing of whitch of the 3 possible installation combinations of the injection pump to the timing gear is the right one.

I wish Tractorfan member @Ferdinanddijkstra (a former RENAULT-mechanic) finally can tell us.

Ferdinand, hoe moet de brandstofpomp tegen het distributietandwiel gemonteerd worden?
Nick N
Ha! Thanks Wimsumar.

I was hoping lining up the letter E through the inspection window along with setting the engine to correct position would do the trick? If we can confirm this we can rock n roll.
Wimsumar
Hello NIck N.:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
letter E

Quote:
pump has 3 holes that mount to the gear in the case.



I wonder what the gear in the case looks like. Will you please make and post a photo?
+1
ValtraStisch
Basic rule to mount a CAV DPA pump:
First cilinder on Forderbegin,ca 20 dgs before TDC (end of compression stroke).
pressurise the fuelline for the first cilinder on the pump with a injectortester or simular tool.
The pump wil rotate to the Forderbeginn position.
if you look through the inspection hole you will see the marking for that particular cilinder.
Align the circlip in the housing with the mark, if it already hasn't.
Mount the pump.
rotate the engine and check the timing, adjust if necessary. Check it again.

fujiyachts.net/manuals/…
Nick N
Hi guys,

Thank your for that description and link. So pressuring the line will set the pump into correct position. Thats great, thank you for help.
Nick N
Hi Wimsumar,

I have a photo here from a slightly different mwm engine but the gearing looks the same. The tractor is at a different property, in the outback. Cant take photos without getting off the beaten track.

(klik om te vergroten)

Wimsumar
Hello Nick N.:

Quote Reactie van @Nick N:
mwm engine but the gearing looks the same

Now it seems very easy to me.
I see there are 4 holes in de gearwheel. In one of them you have to put a screwdriver (or something) so this hole is in line with the "square" hole in the splined shaft opening of the injection pump. You can't miss, I guess.

Because of the marks on the gearwheel (watch for correct place of them) timing of the injection pump now is same as it was before.
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